Mar 12 06:34:08 Nothing like a little 1:30AM chat. Mar 12 06:34:10 <[XR]alan|> rofl voodoo Mar 12 06:34:12 --> Kala (Kala@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:34:12 Knight has a bed rep? Mar 12 06:34:12 <[XR]zWolf> lol Mar 12 06:34:13 I know of a place with 3 10 wood trees Mar 12 06:34:18 --> Hawk00 (Hawk00@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:34:19 hehe Teppy Mar 12 06:34:20 <[XR]alan|> teppy, i still have to do my nuclear fusion report that i haven't started Mar 12 06:34:20 heh Mar 12 06:34:21 good morning everyone! Mar 12 06:34:26 its 130 aready? Mar 12 06:34:26 I can't wait for this to be implenemted! :) Mar 12 06:34:29 --> Jaklar (Jaklar@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:34:29 All the leet people are on at 1:30am Mar 12 06:34:32 For meI'm still trying to figure out if he hates me still for my good ol' waterthread artical Mar 12 06:34:37 its a stupid law Mar 12 06:34:38 thanks for reminding me Mar 12 06:34:42 Teppy, what's the status of my evil menu? :) Mar 12 06:34:44 --> Inu (chatzilla@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:34:47 --- Kala is now known as Guest563023726 Mar 12 06:34:48 <[XR]zWolf> Sa Mar 12 06:34:50 --> MV (askme@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:34:54 so people will just start making 11 wood bonfires Mar 12 06:35:02 lol yeah Mar 12 06:35:04 <[XR]alan|> i still have to do my nuclear fusion report that i haven't started Mar 12 06:35:05 <[XR]alan|> =\ Mar 12 06:35:06 --> Sarabeth (sarah@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:35:12 <[XR]WarHammer> woot woot Mar 12 06:35:14 Mmm... papyrus paper... such a sweet, sweet smell... Mar 12 06:35:14 --- Guest563023726 is now known as kitfox Mar 12 06:35:22 --> Seyton (somebody@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:35:31 <[XR]zWolf> Saxamon, I can't belive that you were in our chat, and have resisted the draw of the Crossroads! Mar 12 06:35:33 Umm I hereby delare that we should all have more time to disarm our 1 wood bonfires! Mar 12 06:35:33 --> Lothar|GP (james@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:35:35 Arion, got a bit too many whiffs? Mar 12 06:35:35 --- Wikt|Sinai is now known as Wikt|School Mar 12 06:35:37 280 people, and over half of them are in here? Mar 12 06:35:38 <[XR]VoodooC|barely_awake> i know Mar 12 06:35:43 --> lee (lee@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:35:48 heh Mar 12 06:35:49 Party in Egypt! Mar 12 06:35:51 <[XR]VoodooC|barely_awake> i think sax must have something that blocks the subliminal messages we transmit through voice chat Mar 12 06:35:53 Anthox, or more time to reinforce them to 11 wood. :D Mar 12 06:35:53 w00t Mar 12 06:35:55 not everyone in here is awake Mar 12 06:36:01 --> Rhys-FoM-[VoK] (xqqboq@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:36:01 yes! Mar 12 06:36:03 --> jennaBee (jenna4b@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:36:04 I mean no.. Mar 12 06:36:06 <[XR]alan|> voodoo - know anything about nuclear fusion? Mar 12 06:36:12 --> [XR]Nehkara (nehkara@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:36:13 Teppy we want more time to disarm Mar 12 06:36:17 I'm ready... got my 7+ days of WP time, and a +2 str/dex brew, and my waypoints set up... time to convert to 11 wood.. Mar 12 06:36:17 Wolf: My will is strong. I will not submit! Mar 12 06:36:17 <[XR]Stas> alan, i spanked ya Mar 12 06:36:20 * [XR]VoodooC|barely_awake subliminals... welcome to the borg... you love crossroads... voodooc is NOT the stranger Mar 12 06:36:20 give us a week or two Mar 12 06:36:21 Er Mar 12 06:36:23 --> PenguinGod (PenguinGod@152.78.191.92) has joined #ATITD Mar 12 06:36:23 <[XR]alan|> rgr stas Mar 12 06:36:27 H + H = He. What's so tough about that? :-) Mar 12 06:36:27 * [XR]Mr_Pinstripe thinks Alan should ask Sadadm Mar 12 06:36:28 --> Asty (Jeredin@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:36:30 That isn't how laws generally work? Mar 12 06:36:32 Dude, Voodoo is so the Stranger... Mar 12 06:36:33 --- [XR]VoodooC|barely_awake is now known as [XR]VoodooC|wideawake Mar 12 06:36:35 <[XR]alan|> not nuclear FISSION Mar 12 06:36:37 <[XR]alan|> nuclear FUSION Mar 12 06:36:38 How many of the 280 are unattended macroers? :P Mar 12 06:36:42 We about ready to start? Mar 12 06:36:42 <[XR]alan|> rgr Pryon|DoN Mar 12 06:36:42 --> Frotz[SUN] (steneman@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:36:44 --> Ravious (zbest@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:36:44 <[XR]Stas> i still spanked ya Mar 12 06:36:52 I encourage someone to carpent the land with 11 wood bonfires to show the silliness of this law Mar 12 06:36:57 <[XR]alan|> but i have to explain it in large terms Mar 12 06:37:05 carpet Mar 12 06:37:06 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> Let's go. Mar 12 06:37:06 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> dont worry zomboe im already upgrading our arsenal Mar 12 06:37:06 shut up Seyton! Mar 12 06:37:09 <[XR]Nehkara> Hello everyone Mar 12 06:37:11 --- Knightmare_The_Destroyer is now known as Knightmare|EvilMenu Mar 12 06:37:12 someone mute the channel Mar 12 06:37:14 --- Frotz[SUN] is now known as Bonk[VrAK][OPEC] Mar 12 06:37:18 I think the reason the law passed is frustration over people claiming land with bonfires. Mar 12 06:37:20 good to hear it Voodoo :) Mar 12 06:37:20 Are woodplanes easier than 11 wood bonfires? Mar 12 06:37:27 no Mar 12 06:37:27 possibly Mar 12 06:37:28 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> all our ICBMs will now be armed with ELEVEN MEGAWOOD WARHEADS Mar 12 06:37:32 no Mar 12 06:37:33 --> Unagi (jIRC@152.78.191.92) has joined #ATITD Mar 12 06:37:34 --> gavinp (gavinp@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:37:34 <[XR]alan|> mwahahaa Mar 12 06:37:35 slate is the devil Mar 12 06:37:35 can already remove wood planes, I thought.. Mar 12 06:37:35 but there is the special salvage law for that Mar 12 06:37:36 woodplanes can already be torn down Mar 12 06:37:38 OPEC?!? Mar 12 06:37:38 Nah, 6 slate is harder than 11 wood Mar 12 06:37:39 True. Mar 12 06:37:40 --- Lothar|GP is now known as Lothar|GoDP Mar 12 06:37:45 The only bonfires I have are to protect my tin mine from poachers :( Mar 12 06:37:48 woodplanes are still harder Mar 12 06:37:48 * Sprocket[BES] can't stop gigling. Mar 12 06:37:49 aye Mar 12 06:37:49 --> Syndran|RP (tg_queensg@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:37:49 <-- Syndran|RP has quit (Quit: ) Mar 12 06:37:57 woodplanes fall udner special salvage, anyway. Mar 12 06:37:58 under Mar 12 06:37:59 Ok, so this is gonna be interesting... Mar 12 06:38:07 * Sprocket[BES] slaps Bonk[VrAK][OPEC] around a bit with a large trout Mar 12 06:38:07 wait your tin mine isn't alive it can't be poached Mar 12 06:38:10 --- PenguinGod is now known as PenguinGod|GoDP Mar 12 06:38:10 While claiming land with bonfires is annoying, it's even more annoying setting up camp and having someone plunk a mine right in the middle of everything. Mar 12 06:38:11 I like destroying woodplanes :) Mar 12 06:38:12 oil is coming our way soon, sprockster Mar 12 06:38:16 dork.. Mar 12 06:38:18 Hopefully if people go to 11 wood bonfiresanother law will be passed until finally something gets passed giving personal property laws specifically. Mar 12 06:38:19 Teppy, did you predict that people would claim land when you thought of crowding? Mar 12 06:38:21 me too ;) Mar 12 06:38:23 Cause people get tired of half measures Mar 12 06:38:23 I realize I'm asking all the people who *are* on at 1:30AM, but try to be objective here... Mar 12 06:38:24 I don't see why bonfires are a building in the first place... Mar 12 06:38:25 --- jennaBee is now known as irikara Mar 12 06:38:26 Knightmare- Me too! ;) Mar 12 06:38:30 Zomboe: Yes. Mar 12 06:38:30 Bonk: do you know what you're talking about?? Mar 12 06:38:33 --> Syndran|RP (tg_queensg@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:38:41 Intresting? Indeed, this will lead to even more intresting laws, I suspect. Mar 12 06:38:43 thanks Mar 12 06:38:47 It can be killed though, by a next door public mine... or any mine for that matter Mar 12 06:38:50 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> heh Mar 12 06:38:56 if the law passed, could the decay system be reimplemented? Mar 12 06:38:59 bah, only 10:30pm here ;) Mar 12 06:39:00 --> Abdar (mithander@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:39:01 <[XR]alan|> Teppy[eGenesis] - you're like AND ALL GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN TO DRIVE PEOPLE INSANE...MWAHAHAHAHA! Mar 12 06:39:10 I hope this doesn't precipitate the successful passing of some lame land-grab law :-/ Mar 12 06:39:13 MUTE THE DAMN CHANNEL SPAM Mar 12 06:39:17 damn.. 1:30 am.. sleepy time.. Mar 12 06:39:18 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> onhting acording to plan Mar 12 06:39:20 The very fact that someone thinks someone else building a mine next door is poaching is why the bonfire law isn't going to change anything. Mar 12 06:39:23 it would take about 30 wood for it to be easier to build a wood plane (which is salvagable) or a small chest (which isn't) Mar 12 06:39:27 I think evetually a personal property law is necessary. Mar 12 06:39:34 Getting one thought of and passed is the hard part. Mar 12 06:39:38 I think a grifing law is more in the offing than a property law. Mar 12 06:39:42 Ok, gonna turn on the self-moderation flag. Mar 12 06:39:44 Dear Teppy please stock the canals in BFE with fish... thanks.. Love Far Off Traders Mar 12 06:39:44 >flip< Mar 12 06:39:44 I think land ownership is already necessary Mar 12 06:39:55 Ok... Mar 12 06:39:57 ok, here's the discussion. 10 wood = nothing, so this law = meaningless Mar 12 06:40:00 I realize I'm asking all the people who *are* on at 1:30AM, but try to be objective here... Mar 12 06:40:00 You'd think it was poaching if you paid 50 canvas for it, and somebody plopped down a mine that quickly went over level 10 Mar 12 06:40:06 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> :) Mar 12 06:40:10 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> someone set +m Mar 12 06:40:10 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> try eh? Mar 12 06:40:11 <[XR]alan|> Teppy[eGenesis] 1:30..your time Mar 12 06:40:17 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> XR shush pls Mar 12 06:40:18 <[XR]alan|> =\ Mar 12 06:40:21 * Syndran|RP just had an initiate accidently take 18000 bricks from the machine Mar 12 06:40:24 <[XR]alan|> yashrier Mar 12 06:40:26 What is the best way to implement this law? Mar 12 06:40:26 ok Teppy I think honestly you should chage the law Mar 12 06:40:35 --> Guest4566 (Guest4566@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:40:36 hmmm you mean what is more annoying a woodplane or 11 bonfires ? Mar 12 06:40:40 --> Arwendiel (rfoster@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:40:41 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> XR discuss in voice chat or guild irc Mar 12 06:40:41 <-- Arwendiel has quit (Client closed connection) Mar 12 06:40:45 ANY bonfire that goes 6 hours with no lighting should be lightable by anyone Mar 12 06:40:47 No, not going to change it - it's a perfectly valid law. Mar 12 06:40:47 give everyone at least a day before implimenting it Mar 12 06:40:54 --> Arwendiel (rfoster@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:40:54 Teppy: server wide sweep auto-destroying all <10 wood bonfires Mar 12 06:40:57 to clean the slate Mar 12 06:40:57 just a slight mod to it Mar 12 06:41:02 <[XR]WarHammer> i agree with anthox Mar 12 06:41:03 --> Grier[FoN] (funny@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:41:11 --> silver (silver@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:41:11 the only "best bonfire" law was one that soemone else (can't remember name) suggested... no more than 10 of X kind of building within Y radius. Mar 12 06:41:13 hi Grier ! Mar 12 06:41:13 What is the text of the law, as passed? Mar 12 06:41:16 I'd start now at 0 hours. Mar 12 06:41:18 the intent? make it so you can light any bonfire after x minutes, where x is the amount of wood in the bonfire Mar 12 06:41:26 I mean bonfires are for chrcoal ash and lime, no claiming squatters rights Mar 12 06:41:28 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> um, ok, 24 boards == small chest Mar 12 06:41:30 I fear the spirit of that law will not have any effect. Mar 12 06:41:34 Silvanis: That's a very good law! Mar 12 06:41:36 any arbitrary limit you put on the # of wood in the fire is just that.. arbitrary. Mar 12 06:41:39 So 6 hours from now things become salvageable. You have no clue otherwise how long things have been up. And that starts at a 0 space. Mar 12 06:41:42 18 boards for drying rack better Mar 12 06:41:50 * Sparrow agrees with Knightmare... wipe the server of the fires before starting... Mar 12 06:41:57 --> Khu (m@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:42:03 Yeah, the whole squatter thing is ridiculous anyhow Mar 12 06:42:04 no dont do that Mar 12 06:42:11 No need to modify the law - I'm only interested in timing... Mar 12 06:42:13 testing. don't use IRC much (if ever). please be generous if I'm being overly annoying by making a test post Mar 12 06:42:18 --> Zozz (r3r3r3@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:42:18 I agree to wipe the server of bonfires as well Mar 12 06:42:20 --> Gentry (gentry@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:42:20 And I loved the comic strip on atitd.info Mar 12 06:42:23 * Pryon|DoN wonders how many wood he'd have to collect to reach the Jeans mass and have a self-gravitating bonfire Mar 12 06:42:24 fresh start Mar 12 06:42:27 btw Mar 12 06:42:30 moo Mar 12 06:42:31 people should have taken the passage of the law as warning enough Mar 12 06:42:32 Wiping fires? Veto - Physics. Mar 12 06:42:35 I can implement now, or implement in the morning... Mar 12 06:42:40 morning Mar 12 06:42:42 start the timer at 0 now.. so it gives me time to replace them all with 11 wood fires. Mar 12 06:42:42 Or even send out an email first. Mar 12 06:42:43 no wiping bonfires, that's divine intervention Mar 12 06:42:44 * Ruldaen[HoDF] votes for now Mar 12 06:42:44 timing? eh just do it now Mar 12 06:42:45 morning Mar 12 06:42:47 get it over with Mar 12 06:42:49 now Mar 12 06:42:49 I don't have the text of the law in front of me atm, but doesn't it say 'allow people to salvage'? so sweeping the server of bonfires wouldn't be according to the law. Mar 12 06:42:49 <[XR]Ryis> morning Mar 12 06:42:50 would it make a difference? Mar 12 06:42:51 Yeah, now. Mar 12 06:42:54 email Mar 12 06:42:55 do they become salvagable 6 hours from implemntation or immediately then? Mar 12 06:42:55 so I hear there is a big to-do about people being able to disassemble bon fires here =) Mar 12 06:42:59 do it now Mar 12 06:43:00 I would implement now. Not sure why people should be warned. They knew it was a problem and being voted on. Mar 12 06:43:01 law was warning enough Mar 12 06:43:02 So by morning we can tear them down Mar 12 06:43:02 get it done Mar 12 06:43:03 put an in game poll? Mar 12 06:43:05 No, I'm not going to wipe or light them. You guys will have to salvage them, just as the law says. Mar 12 06:43:07 no... dont give people time to add 10 wood to 1 wood bonfires.. it defeats the purpose Mar 12 06:43:09 You voted for it! Mar 12 06:43:14 do it now Mar 12 06:43:16 Yes it would make a difference. All the people in here can upgrade their bonfires. The people asleep right now have no warning. Mar 12 06:43:17 No, I didn't. Mar 12 06:43:18 yeah dont allow time Mar 12 06:43:22 we voted for it it passed, put it in Mar 12 06:43:23 do it now Mar 12 06:43:25 do it now do they cant Mar 12 06:43:25 laws get passed too quickly, i never got a chance to even vote on this law Mar 12 06:43:26 Now, i would say Mar 12 06:43:28 I'd say now. Mar 12 06:43:34 Not that I think they *should* have a warning necessarily, but thats the issue. Mar 12 06:43:38 Do it the same way you'd do any other law Mar 12 06:43:40 they knew the law was up for vote. an extra 8 hours while 80% of them are sleeping in which to personally salvage their own bonfires won't help them Mar 12 06:43:43 Sparrow: I think his point is that we could all go and salvage the bonfires and greif the camps while noone's around Mar 12 06:43:47 and hurry up my GF wants me in bed Mar 12 06:43:53 I think many laws are being passed far too quickly Mar 12 06:43:56 there is no purpose to this law... Mar 12 06:43:57 so.. the law passed Mar 12 06:44:02 Anthox: so why are you here? : ) Mar 12 06:44:05 in a week all the one wood bonfires will be replaced Mar 12 06:44:09 good point.. later Mar 12 06:44:10 * Syndran|RP wonders if gentry voted no then Mar 12 06:44:11 Ok, I'd like to hear from anyone who advocates delaying implementation. Mar 12 06:44:13 Guest4566: I agree with that... sometimes I barely catch a law before it's passed. Mar 12 06:44:13 thank god my power just came on jsut before the message went out. Mar 12 06:44:13 implement it now, please :) Mar 12 06:44:14 You know that someone is going to wake up tomorrow and moan that they didn't get a chance to upgrade their bonfires, and they got burned down, and their camp was griefed, or the vein was grapped, or yada yada Mar 12 06:44:17 I voted no Mar 12 06:44:18 so teppy, do as you please Mar 12 06:44:19 how many rl hours was this law up before passing? Mar 12 06:44:26 <-- Anthox[BoO] (ltant2005@152.78.191.92) has left #atitd Mar 12 06:44:27 i say 24 hour grace to remove them yourself Mar 12 06:44:27 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> lol amira Mar 12 06:44:29 Whether they *deserve* advance warning is a different issue, but you know thats gonna happen. Mar 12 06:44:29 72 RL hours. Mar 12 06:44:35 i vote : who freakin cares its a stupid law Mar 12 06:44:37 --- Guest4566 is now known as helloatitd Mar 12 06:44:41 whats the point of a warning? It defeats the laws purpose, right? Mar 12 06:44:50 Sort of does, yes. Mar 12 06:44:53 I'd say implement now with the existing at '0' hours. That gives people 6 hours RL... and is fair to all within the context of the law. Mar 12 06:44:54 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> yes time for another IRC chat at a moredecent hour Mar 12 06:45:00 Agrees with PenguinGod to an extent. Mar 12 06:45:03 Delaying implementation effectively changes the law, albeit for a short period of time. Mar 12 06:45:04 most people dont exspect a law to start workign tho at 1:30 am Mar 12 06:45:12 yah, so they can complain. they still knew the law was up for vote, knew when it would expire, and decided not to stay up for it :) Mar 12 06:45:16 It's not 1:30am here asser. Mar 12 06:45:18 Who says it is 1.30??? Mar 12 06:45:18 If the law is delayed everyone will just build more bonfiresd Mar 12 06:45:21 more decent? it'll be 5 am here Mar 12 06:45:26 its 7.30 am here Mar 12 06:45:27 some laws don't get implimented immediately due to coding time anyway Mar 12 06:45:27 * Zozz dislikes the "land grabbing" facilitated by these bonfires, so the sooner the better Mar 12 06:45:28 doesn't sound too decent to me Mar 12 06:45:29 not 1:30 here eather Mar 12 06:45:29 yes but there isn't really an expectation that laws will be implemented immediately. Mar 12 06:45:32 what is the point of passing a law if people can just add 10 wood to there 500- 1 wood fires.. the crowding and mine/camp griefing would still place if they have time to upgrade.... Mar 12 06:45:34 people should have delt with their bonfires when the law passed Mar 12 06:45:35 going by server time tho Mar 12 06:45:35 Starting the 6 hour timer now makes some sense... Mar 12 06:45:38 the next law will have to be <=100 wood, however Mar 12 06:45:38 1:47 eastern Mar 12 06:45:44 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> some may have already upgraded their bonfires preemptively. its not like the law has been a surprise Mar 12 06:45:46 Teppy.. can you give us the location of the camp of the person who proposed this law so we can ring their camp with 11 wood fires to illustrate the absurdity of the law? Mar 12 06:45:51 It'll always be 1:30am somewhere for players... time cannot be a factor. Mar 12 06:45:54 Although harder to implement. (I can't test easily). Mar 12 06:45:55 * Sparrow thinks of all the laws that were implemented when she was not online or even awake for that matter Mar 12 06:45:56 hahaha doku Mar 12 06:45:57 heh Mar 12 06:46:02 lol Mar 12 06:46:03 Silvanis PM Mar 12 06:46:03 agreeing with Lothar Mar 12 06:46:04 --- Ruldaen[HoDF] is now known as Ruldaen|Zzzz Mar 12 06:46:05 * Ruldaen|Zzzz is away (Sleeping) [P:on-L:on] Mar 12 06:46:05 just make a new account and teleport to them Mar 12 06:46:06 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> i think the law is a waste of coding effort, thats all Mar 12 06:46:07 just because a law does not solve the entire problem, does not mean its not a good start Mar 12 06:46:14 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> ooers good idea bradh Mar 12 06:46:16 Yes, the law's kinda silly. But it still got voted through. Mar 12 06:46:16 Look, it's not Teppy's problem that the law is stupid and useless. :) Teppy, just take it literally. Mar 12 06:46:17 Heph: Agreed. Mar 12 06:46:18 I think you should deam this law 'unclear' as it doesn't really do what it claims it is trying to do Mar 12 06:46:18 * Syndran|RP thinks its midafternoon.. whats the problem Mar 12 06:46:26 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> yeah just implement Mar 12 06:46:27 okay, so the law got passed Mar 12 06:46:30 now impliment it Mar 12 06:46:31 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> punish the fools who voted yes Mar 12 06:46:31 unagi: its clear Mar 12 06:46:33 This problem deserves a REAL fix Mar 12 06:46:37 i agree heph Mar 12 06:46:38 Technically this law doesnt fix the problem Mar 12 06:46:38 so we can prove stupidity is rife throughout egypt Mar 12 06:46:39 i know Mar 12 06:46:39 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> if you want to waste your coding time Mar 12 06:46:41 and anyone here want to help me with my vine real fast? heh Mar 12 06:46:43 maybe the Law should have been "ANY bonfires over a week old could be salvaged" Mar 12 06:46:47 Its not a silly law when these fires are covering land where other players can build.. kind of like squatting if you ask me Mar 12 06:46:52 There is no rule that say a law must be implemented immediatly after being passed. Mar 12 06:46:53 btw: I'm carrying around an "anti-moron" petition, if anyone would like to sign... Mar 12 06:46:56 I think once everyone sees how stupid and ineffective this one was, maybe there'll be a real effort to figure out a solution. Mar 12 06:47:03 I dunno that it's unclear. It's very clear. It just doesn't do, necessarily, what it was meant to. Mar 12 06:47:03 if you don't like the law, write a new one. This was passed, and its going on the books. Mar 12 06:47:03 Ok, so I think the most persuasive argument is that everyone has had ample time to build giant bonfires if they want to claim land that way... Mar 12 06:47:06 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> penguin: its silly, because its 11 wood, or its 24 boards, or its... etc. Mar 12 06:47:06 lol doku Mar 12 06:47:16 I personally wanted a better law. but this one passed. so we deal. how do we deal? like we do any other law. we just deal. I see no reason to make a special exception giving this one a window (during which many affected are sleeping anyway) Mar 12 06:47:16 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> :D tep Mar 12 06:47:19 EvilMenu: yeah, Sprocket is Bes, so I'm sure they have oil soon :) Mar 12 06:47:20 <[XR]alan|> Its always going to be something Mar 12 06:47:26 Zozz I agree, Mar 12 06:47:29 PenguinGod|GoDP: And since we can't kill squatters and steal their stuff, like in the wild west, we should at least be able to burn their fires! :) Mar 12 06:47:32 I liked < 1000 wood personaly Mar 12 06:47:39 thank god voters dont come in and see the negitiveness of what happens when a law votes.. no one would propose laws because of a few peoples unfair/unrealastic opinions Mar 12 06:47:41 solution to what? half the people clam not being able to own land is the problem, the other half claim owning land is the problem Mar 12 06:47:43 Bah, this is silly. We NEED land control laws, but we can't agree on what they should be. Until we suffer for not having such laws, we won't learn to cooperate. Mar 12 06:47:45 And so a few more hours is irrelavant... Mar 12 06:47:48 It probably should have been 'Any bonfires within X distance of any permanent structure should be able to be lit or salvaged unless the permanent structure is owned by the person or guild who laid the bonfire.' Mar 12 06:47:50 heh Mar 12 06:47:52 Heph: Hehe. I like that one too. Mar 12 06:48:02 bleh Mar 12 06:48:06 grei you have a good idea there Mar 12 06:48:07 Some will feel it is not fair that they missed the land rush. Mar 12 06:48:08 agree Grei Mar 12 06:48:08 I think it's disingenous to delay implementation artificially. If you'd implement (or begin implementation) of any other law immediately, this shouldn't be an exception. Mar 12 06:48:11 A few more hours are relevant for people in US time zones. People will be waking up around 8am. Mar 12 06:48:11 Lothar, I'm carrying a pettion for < 1000 is burnable after an hour Mar 12 06:48:14 I think delaying it now would moot the law anyway Mar 12 06:48:14 Grei, that just allows the abuse to continue. Mar 12 06:48:19 THAT was what I voted against allowing. Mar 12 06:48:20 most salvage laws are written poorly and don't take into account all the factors Mar 12 06:48:21 so whats the point of delaying it Mar 12 06:48:24 they'll have to suck it up, teppy :) Mar 12 06:48:32 teppy: do it =) Mar 12 06:48:34 all of us here will go claim the spots now anyway Mar 12 06:48:37 can someone restate the law you are talking about, I came in a little late Mar 12 06:48:40 heres what will happen Mar 12 06:48:43 I have no one wood bonfires that I am aware of Mar 12 06:48:45 Doooo it. Don't be afraaaaaid. Mar 12 06:48:51 I go build 11 wood bonfires near the 1 wood ones Mar 12 06:48:57 I missed the vine-cutting rush. you don't see me posting laments and cursing the devs Mar 12 06:48:58 Teppy, do objects have a 'last used' or 'last touched' datestamp? Mar 12 06:49:00 then when law implement mine still crowd Mar 12 06:49:00 Teppy[eGenesis]: Again, because this game is on a global scale, time of day where the server is should not be a deciding factor on importaqnt things. It will always be a problem for someone somewhere no matter when something gets done. Mar 12 06:49:03 all bonfires under 10 wood will be removeable? burnable? by anyone after they've been up for 6 hrs Mar 12 06:49:04 implementing this law now is fine with me imho, then again, I don't land grab with anything Mar 12 06:49:07 and salvage the 1 wood Mar 12 06:49:07 how about bonfires can be build withint 50 squares of another bonfire Mar 12 06:49:13 Teppy, no matter when you make the law people will feel that, so far the first Tugcontest were a new fishing pole was given out as a price, ni European could attend Mar 12 06:49:26 if the law is delayed now *that* many more people will have warning Mar 12 06:49:30 Teppy: I say delay it 24 RL hours. It's not fair that having to go to work in the morning impacts your gameplay. Mar 12 06:49:31 Ok, here goes... Mar 12 06:49:32 <[XR]alan|> Syndran|RP - some people like to get a lot of ash at once.. Mar 12 06:49:39 --- kembo is now known as kembo|school Mar 12 06:49:40 and the problem will be the same, but with 11 wood =-) Mar 12 06:49:45 Petizzz: is europe cut off of the internet at night? Mar 12 06:49:50 so make a few bonfires one after another!! Mar 12 06:49:54 it's morning somewhere Mar 12 06:49:59 ok.. time for me to start removing fencing. :P Mar 12 06:50:07 --> tazel-bain (tazel-bain@152.78.191.92) has joined #atitd Mar 12 06:50:10 brightshadow[eLeviticus], no, but why accomodate the americans hen, are they? Mar 12 06:50:12 BradH: Then th next law will handle those with 11 wood. :) There are things called ammendments and new laws... Mar 12 06:50:12 Boohoo. If you're not in game when a law's implemented, why should those 8 or 9 timezones away pay for your geographic misfortune? Mar 12 06:50:14 so, who's up for passing a real land ownership law? Mar 12 06:50:15 does the link from the US to europe just get shut off when the atlantic ocean janitor goes home? Mar 12 06:50:21 Maybe only the Linux clients should be allowed to build bonfires ;) Mar 12 06:50:27 lol Mar 12 06:50:31 brightshadow[eLeviticus], no, but why accomodate the americans then, are they? Mar 12 06:50:32 PenguinGod|GoDP: hahahaha Mar 12 06:50:42 What does - Here goes - mean Teppy? Mar 12 06:50:46 * Asser gr ins at PenguinGod|GoDP Mar 12 06:50:46 The law passed, implement now Mar 12 06:50:48 teppy: this is junk, the law passed, you should impliment it per your policy Mar 12 06:50:52 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> Teppy: Only 280 people in the game at chat start? Mar 12 06:50:53 probibly means being implimented now. Mar 12 06:50:56 it means he's going to turn it on : ) Mar 12 06:51:08 gonna press the big red button Mar 12 06:51:10 Is there a policy that says a law must be implemented as soon as its passed? Mar 12 06:51:14 Petizzz: plenty of americans are on in the middle of the night Mar 12 06:51:14 yah, and I felt cut off from winning a shiny new fishing pole because there aren't enough people in my region to find 7 opponents to beat that early in the game. did I post saying how unfair it was? no. it's just a game. deal. this is when the law passes, we don't need a special delay for this one. Mar 12 06:51:40 we don't need a special delay for anything Mar 12 06:51:46 Petizzz: there was nothing stopping someone from a different time zone from participating in the tug contest. i, for one, was at work during the contest. do you see me bitching about how i didn't have a chance for the stupid fishing pole? Mar 12 06:51:48 the point is.. people arent going to get rid of your fires unless you abused the "marker" aspect... ie... grei (i would ASSUME) wont come to my camp and burn my 4- 1 wood fires that dont bother him or affect what he does Mar 12 06:51:48 exactly Mar 12 06:51:53 <[XR]Ryis> The law should have stated when it should go into effect. Since it didn't say, Teppy can do it whenever. Mar 12 06:51:53 Khu: No, but I believe it's been stated that, once passed, work will at least begin on implementation. If the law happens to be easy to implement, then it will be implemented more quickly than a difficult one Mar 12 06:51:54 the law goes into effect whenever the devs get to coding it, period Mar 12 06:51:55 Yeah, no one asked if he should delay the special chest amendment. he just announced it was ready to use. Mar 12 06:52:00 if he has the code, he should impliment it Mar 12 06:52:08 right on gentry Mar 12 06:52:15 all those ppl that had already gone to bed didn't get a chance to set the stash and take properties until tomorrow. Mar 12 06:52:21 in summary: life sucks, wear a helmet Mar 12 06:52:25 could they be griefed before then? sure. Mar 12 06:52:26 The way I see it there's two issues with bonfires right now. A) People using bonfires to encircle an outrageous area to mark future expansion of their camp. B) Jamming up a small area to prevent others from building near a mine or quarry or other prime spot. I personally don't have an issue with marking off reasonable area for a camp...you don't want overcrowding after all, and you don't want people to set up in the middle of your camp either. Mar 12 06:52:29 i pity those people homegrown Mar 12 06:52:36 :) Mar 12 06:52:38 We make laws to govern our society. All else beyond that is Pharaoh's domain. Mar 12 06:52:40 Implementing now gives a random group of people an unfair advantage. Mar 12 06:52:46 The fact that that's possible means this law is ineffective Mar 12 06:52:46 I really would like to see some sort of real land control, however. Mar 12 06:52:48 :plays the worlds smallest violin for those people who were abusing bonfires in a silly way Mar 12 06:52:50 brightshadow[eLeviticus], I was taking teh meaning that why always do things on primetime US time? Mar 12 06:52:52 amer: not at all. the law was voted on Mar 12 06:52:53 Because it's random, it's not unfair. Mar 12 06:52:55 what advantage? to circumvent the law? Mar 12 06:53:01 Life isn't fair Mar 12 06:53:06 when they pass a law in any society when does it go into effect? Mar 12 06:53:09 a majority voted yes for this dumb law to begin with Mar 12 06:53:10 To prepare for the change in the world. Mar 12 06:53:11 Petizzz: "always"? Mar 12 06:53:14 Jamming up a small area to prevent others from building near a mine or quarry or other prime spot. <-necessary evil Mar 12 06:53:15 implimenting now gives most the griefers an unfair advantage? Mar 12 06:53:17 deal with it being implemented immediately Mar 12 06:53:18 "sorry.. we don't want to impliment this today, maybe tommorow" Mar 12 06:53:20 Where has deep well been researched? Mar 12 06:53:33 then what? Mar 12 06:53:35 owning land isn't evil Mar 12 06:53:36 From a role playing perspective, the idea behind a delay is that it would take time for the Pharoah to draft and administer a new law. There is no reason the Pharaoh couldn't include time for the citizens to ready themself for the affects of a major law. Mar 12 06:53:36 what about you can't build bonfires within x radius of another bonfire? Mar 12 06:53:37 bad guys go free? Mar 12 06:53:43 well whatever he does now will have the become the presidence.... Mar 12 06:53:46 <[XR]Ryis> advantage = go salvage your enemies bonfires and build 11 wood bonfires in their place Mar 12 06:53:48 the law is drafted Mar 12 06:53:53 and administration is complete Mar 12 06:53:55 Petizzz: if you want to organize an event, go donate to contest organization Mar 12 06:53:56 impliment Mar 12 06:53:57 [XR]Ryis: good point Mar 12 06:54:01 No, bad guys get free tent relocations and a hearty congrats on being "clever". Mar 12 06:54:06 heh Mar 12 06:54:06 what, specifically, is the wording of the latw? Mar 12 06:54:07 <[XR]VoodooC|wideawake> lol Mar 12 06:54:07 kitfox: There are legitimate reasons to do that Mar 12 06:54:09 Ok, I have put it in as a menu comment rather than a menu item, for testing... Mar 12 06:54:14 This is going nowhere... I'm not rushing for land, nor do I squat by using bonfires. It doesn't affect me, and it's not like anything is getting accomplished by this. Goodnight all- see you in the game! Mar 12 06:54:22 if people are going to just upgrade bonfires to crowd out land.. i am sure a new law will come along to combat THAT Mar 12 06:54:23 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> Teppy: Only 280 people in the game at chat start? Mar 12 06:54:27 Ravious, there is no precedence. Teppy can do wahtever he wants whenever he wants and he's entitled to change him mind in between. :D Mar 12 06:54:28 kitfox: If you can't run a hearth or oven for whatever reason, several close 16-wooders are convenient Mar 12 06:54:33 why build an 11 wood bonfire when you can build a mine =-) Mar 12 06:54:39 <-- Lothar|GoDP has quit (Quit: Client exiting) Mar 12 06:54:40 what's that mean teppy? Mar 12 06:54:43 <-- lee has quit (Quit: Client Exiting) Mar 12 06:54:53 Yes, but we'd only have 350-400 at primetime on a weekday. Mar 12 06:54:56 means you can see that this would be salvagable Mar 12 06:55:06 tease Mar 12 06:55:09 Petizzz: but honestly, i would venture a guess that the vast majority of the players are, in fact, americans, which makes it a little more sensible to orchestrate events to, for example, EST. Mar 12 06:55:11 homegrown, that is not the way it should be...sort of undermines everything Mar 12 06:55:15 Ok, someone build me a new 5 wood bonfire to test please. Mar 12 06:55:22 <-- Alkzar_Away_Again has quit (Quit: ) Mar 12 06:55:25 ok Mar 12 06:55:25 teppy: as a loyal player I request you either tech veto or impliment as soon as possible, there shouldn't be post-vote quibbling Mar 12 06:55:25 brightshadow[eLeviticus], stop it, I'm talking about that some people argue that Teppy shouldn't put in things cause teh US can't be there in the middle of the night for them Mar 12 06:55:25 you can take mine out Mar 12 06:55:28 Say when you've built it and I'll warp over to test. Mar 12 06:55:30 the law was passed Mar 12 06:55:31 bonfire building now Mar 12 06:55:31 well, sure, Lothar. I haven't seen anything vaguely unto like something remotely resembling bonfire grabbing in WG. but I can still debate the point of the law Mar 12 06:55:33 U've hit Europe prime-time, Teppy (8 am) Mar 12 06:55:33 ive been looking for marble with em Mar 12 06:55:35 <[XR]Mr_Pinstripe> teppy come to xr :) Mar 12 06:55:35 built Mar 12 06:55:38 Why not just make bonfires a "non-building" item? In other words... others can build over them maybe? Mar 12 06:55:42 Built Mar 12 06:55:45 brightshadow[eLeviticus], in beta it was 50-50 Euro/US Mar 12 06:55:47 done, teppy Mar 12 06:55:48 people shouldn't be griping about when the bonfire law goes into effect, because they all voted on it Mar 12 06:55:55 new one built by old one waiting to be torn down. Mar 12 06:55:56 take my bonfires tep Mar 12 06:56:01 brightshadow[eLeviticus], yes, agreed Mar 12 06:56:05 penguin: then you could build bonfires until you have a billion polygons onscreen Mar 12 06:56:06 1073, -439 Mar 12 06:56:07 the devs are sure entitled to change their minds later on. As of now, the developers have shown what they do when you abuse a bug, exploit, "creative use of magic", whatever you care to call it. And whoever comes up next, no matter how minor or how serious their little cheat is, will immediately point to this shining example and scream hypocrisy. If they can spell it. Mar 12 06:56:09 brightshadow[eLeviticus]: the problem is the non-specific time from passing to implementation. Mar 12 06:56:14 guess thats true Mar 12 06:56:23 Everone voted, but not everyone knew it would pass. Mar 12 06:56:36 I agree with everyone who says no delay: no favoritism for US timezones. no favoritism for any time. the law was set in mention when the bill was put into place. Mar 12 06:56:37 amer: that's not a problem Mar 12 06:56:54 <-- beaker has quit (Ping timeout) Mar 12 06:56:57 I think it should be implimented RANDOMLY buahaha Mar 12 06:57:02 lol Mar 12 06:57:02 just randomly destroy all bonfires Mar 12 06:57:05 amer: the law has been up for vote for quite some time, and everyone has had PLENTY of time to go make 11 wood bonfires if they really feel they must do it Mar 12 06:57:07 --- Asser is now known as Arrakis|Norserage Mar 12 06:57:07 heheh Mar 12 06:57:12 nah thats not the law Mar 12 06:57:13 forgot i can do a long nick on here Mar 12 06:57:13 one way to fix this is to write a law saying that all laws have a 24-hour "implementation" period, and shall not go into effect until at least 24 hours after the law has passed Mar 12 06:57:16