Mar 23 21:07:41 Ok, shall we start? Mar 23 21:07:44 what story Mar 23 21:07:48 We shall. Mar 23 21:07:50 * Zanix is ready Mar 23 21:07:50 OMG-Aeesops: we are the story Mar 23 21:07:52 <[XR]VoodooC|away> Teppy[eGenesis]: with the free gold handouts Mar 23 21:07:52 please Mar 23 21:07:56 lets go on Mar 23 21:08:09 --> Nayla[COO] (Eek@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:08:13 Ok, so we'll start using the "self moderate" mode... Mar 23 21:08:18 hey Solan, see you made it Mar 23 21:08:24 I want free gold :P Mar 23 21:08:24 * [XR]VoodooC|away everyone shush Mar 23 21:08:25 shhhhh Mar 23 21:08:37 That means, let me talk, and then I'll take questions :) Mar 23 21:08:55 * Nayla[COO] advertises: ppl of Old Egypt, visit #OE! :-) Mar 23 21:09:00 At the end of this meeting, I'll release the next Test of Worship, "The Path of the PIlgrim" Mar 23 21:09:08 --> Hans- (xtreamist@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:09:18 --> rezznor (rezznor@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:09:19 * [XR]VoodooC|away --> #peanutgallery for chatting and not overtalking Mar 23 21:09:28 I want to first go over the test, talk about a change to the scoring system made since the last chat we had... Mar 23 21:09:33 And then take questions. Mar 23 21:09:51 --- rezznor is now known as Lorelai Mar 23 21:10:24 PotP is a competitive test, unlike most Tests of Worship... Mar 23 21:10:39 But it's not individually competitive - it's group competitive. Mar 23 21:10:45 --- Mookie is now known as SeniorFrac Mar 23 21:10:50 The goal is to make the longest pilgrimage... Mar 23 21:11:07 --> Ankh-af-na-Khonsu (asilsby1@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:11:22 And that's measured roughly in the number of pilgrim shrines your group of 7 visits, and Tithes at... Mar 23 21:11:35 --> [XR]MrPinstripe (me@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:11:48 <[XR]MrPinstripe> #peanutgallery Mar 23 21:12:02 The tithe required is determined by the person who built the pilgrim shrine... Mar 23 21:12:11 Nobody may own more than 1 such shrine... Mar 23 21:12:31 And the owner gets to keep any tithes made by visiting pilgrims. Mar 23 21:13:04 So for instance, I visited a shrine near the Crossroads guild which wants each pilgrim to tithe 1 Phagrus fish. Mar 23 21:13:27 And a pilgrimage is 7 people... Mar 23 21:14:11 <-- Ruldaen has quit (Quit: fractal 1.0.9b60 - Drive C: Error, (A)bort (R)etry (I)gnore (K)ick (S)cream - http://fractalscript.com) Mar 23 21:14:13 So if your group visits that shrine, each pilgrim in the group tithes 1 phagrus, and the owner of the shrine keeps all the fish. The group gets 100 points for doing that. Mar 23 21:14:21 --> Ruldaen (crs97@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:14:26 --> Sirtech (rflarsen@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:14:39 You can tithe again at the same shrine, but your group only gets 50 points for a 2nd tithing... Mar 23 21:14:45 no points if not all do it? Mar 23 21:14:49 And 25 for a 3rd, and so on. Mar 23 21:15:13 No points are awarded unless everybody in the group tithes, and does so within 2 minutes. Mar 23 21:15:32 --> frag_frog|atitd (schit1@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:15:41 If someone takes longer they can tithe again, but the shrines owner keeps the extra tithe(s). Mar 23 21:16:01 So, while you can visit one shrine many times... Mar 23 21:16:20 You are much better off to visit different shrines... Mar 23 21:16:39 100+100+100+100... is more than 100+50+25+12.5+... Mar 23 21:16:54 A couple restrictions on which shrines count... Mar 23 21:17:15 Each shrine must be at least 10 minutes run from any other shrine on your pilgrimage. Mar 23 21:17:15 <-- Voids (Voids@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:17:40 game or real time? Mar 23 21:17:42 So, XR, no use in making shrine-mart :) Mar 23 21:17:52 <[XR]VoodooC|away> lol Mar 23 21:17:54 hehe Mar 23 21:17:56 hahaha Mar 23 21:17:57 <[XR]VoodooC|away> you should listen in #peanutgallery Mar 23 21:18:03 how can you tell if it is 10 min? Mar 23 21:18:06 and speak there, too Mar 23 21:18:10 10 minutes is 600 tiles. Mar 23 21:18:18 (coordinates) Mar 23 21:18:27 1 tile = 1 second ;) Mar 23 21:18:37 It's computed exactly, so diagonals count true. Mar 23 21:19:05 Also, only the most holy (expensive) shrine of a given type counts. Mar 23 21:19:30 how many tiles in a mile? Mar 23 21:19:32 So, you may approach a shrine... Mar 23 21:19:41 So, you cant do a shrine, run 10 minutes away, then run back and do the one next to it? Mar 23 21:19:47 most holy...where? that you've visited, in the region, in all of egypt? Mar 23 21:19:52 That requires 5 small rubies per pilgrim... Mar 23 21:19:59 teppy please force moderate Mar 23 21:20:05 --> Kanvil (chatzilla@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:20:10 <[XR]VoodooC|away> yeah people cant follow instructions well Mar 23 21:20:19 <-- dria has quit (Quit: Client Exiting) Mar 23 21:20:28 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:20:44 And then when you try to tithe there... Mar 23 21:21:18 It says that you can't do that because a more holy shrine is nearby that requires, say, 6 small rubies per pilgrim. Mar 23 21:21:31 Each item type is unique though... Mar 23 21:21:44 So you may find a shrine that needs just 1 straw... Mar 23 21:22:21 And tithe there - it's considered holy as long as no other nearby shrines want > 1 straw. Mar 23 21:22:31 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:22:37 Ok, questions so far? Mar 23 21:22:40 nearby shine is by regions? or distance? Mar 23 21:22:40 define "nearby"? Mar 23 21:22:50 So, you cant do a shrine, run 10 minutes away, then run back and do the one next to it? Mar 23 21:22:51 <[XR]VoodooC|away> [13:15] Each shrine must be at least 10 minutes run from any other shrine on your pilgrimage. Mar 23 21:22:52 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:23:28 Nearby means within a 2048x2048 tile block. Egypt is sectioned off in blocks like that, similar to Test of the Obelisk. Mar 23 21:23:53 --> Jardel_SotS (jardel@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #ATITD Mar 23 21:24:20 Klubbad: No - each shrine must be 10 minutes from *all* other shrines on your pilgrimage. Mar 23 21:24:53 A few details designed to discourage "gaming" the test... Mar 23 21:25:08 Shrines that are later torn down do *not* count on your pilgrimage... Mar 23 21:25:36 So you can't build one, have your group tithe, then tear it down so nobody else can get to it. Mar 23 21:26:02 <-- Modesitt (ygbtyuh@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:26:15 --> Katelynn (Katelynn@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:26:35 If another shrine becomes more holy after you have visited the previous less holy one, then that does count. Mar 23 21:26:48 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:26:50 How many points does a given group need to pass the test? The most out of all groups working in it within a day/week/hour? Maybe on multiple counts like with Bedioun? Mar 23 21:26:50 A: How do you form a group B: So that group gets points, when/how do you pass? Mar 23 21:26:51 is there a limit how many shrines one can build? Mar 23 21:26:52 Other Q's? Mar 23 21:26:55 Three questions: 1. Yesterday morning I could make a shrine without the skill, was the skill just added? 2. This seems more like a Body test, what makes it Worship and not Body? 3. Couldn't the pilgrims make 7 shrines using sand, mud, water, etc and get about 190(100+...+12.5) points from each of them? Mar 23 21:26:56 Do the points for repeat tithing eventually go down to 0, or do they stop at 1? Mar 23 21:26:59 The "nearby": Are those set blocks, or centered on the shrine? Mar 23 21:27:03 you can raze down your shrine to build a new one, right? and can you change your tithe? Mar 23 21:27:08 are shrines regional? what's the greatest difference before holiness comes into effect between two shrines? Mar 23 21:27:08 <-- Nayla[COO] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Mar 23 21:27:11 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:27:32 --> Gryffin (Gryffin@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:27:42 Each player may build just 1 shrine. It can be guild owned, but like a tent, you are limited to one. Mar 23 21:27:57 --> Shivre (cralltj@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:28:16 --> _Falcon_ (tom@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:28:23 DuffMan: That was a bug - it's been fixed. You could have only built "0" shrines anyway. Mar 23 21:29:15 --> [XR]Cas (Cas00022@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:29:17 It could have fit either in Body, Worship, or Thought (almost), but aside from the competitive aspect, it dis seem more like worship to me... Mar 23 21:29:52 Yes, you could get 7 points that way, but so could lots of other people. Mar 23 21:30:15 Points eventually go down to 0. Mar 23 21:30:30 <-- frag_frog|atitd (schit1@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:30:45 Nearby (the 2048x2048 blocks) are superimposed on Egypt, not around each shrine. Mar 23 21:31:23 2048 is about a 35 minute run, so a region is quite big. Mar 23 21:31:28 --> [XR]Nehkara (nehkara@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:31:30 --> Modesitt (ygbtyuh@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #ATITD Mar 23 21:31:34 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:31:38 can shrines be given other players? like chests and other buildings? Mar 23 21:31:38 --> Asty (Jeredin@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:31:41 If a shrine loses "holiness" when a more expensive one is built, won't it be likely the less holy gets torn down to replace it, at which point all points gained at it are lost? Mar 23 21:31:41 <[XR]Nehkara> Hi Everyone! Mar 23 21:31:44 What happens if there is a "tie" between two groups? Mar 23 21:31:48 once u begin do u have to remain in the same group? (i.e. do points count at a group or individual level) Mar 23 21:31:50 How do we actually complete this test? Mar 23 21:31:58 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:32:20 Kyr: Yes, that can happen. Mar 23 21:33:00 Although salvage will not work on shrines. (I need to add this) Mar 23 21:33:17 IOW, you can't just salvage a shrine, get back most goods and re-build. Mar 23 21:34:20 If two groups tie, then neither will pass. Mar 23 21:34:29 The contest will extend, effectively... Mar 23 21:34:47 Although I think this is vanishingly rare due to the ability to tithe multiple times. Mar 23 21:35:23 For instance, one shrine in Egypt right now requires Mud Granite as a tithe... Mar 23 21:35:24 --> Omar[WTF] (Omar1111@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:35:42 <-- Mau (mAU@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:35:44 Is anyone going to do that 16 times? 16x7=112 mud granite??? Mar 23 21:35:56 Another requires 1 phagrus per tithe... Mar 23 21:36:06 Anyone know what the third requires? Mar 23 21:36:09 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:36:13 Q - Surely a large guild like XR, could just build 30 shrines with a reasonable cost, spread out 10mins apart, could you make it that each person in the 7 pilgrams may not be in the same guild ??? Also, when u tear it down, how about a 7 day wait before you can build another Mar 23 21:36:14 <[SE]Addrynnyn> how often will the contest 'end' and restart? Mar 23 21:36:15 so it wouldn't be possible to have one shrine only in all of egypt so that every group gets the same points :) smart... : ) so much for cooperation though.. haha :) not like it would happen! Mar 23 21:36:16 When I build a new shrine, how do I now how high the tithe has to be to make it "most holy"? Mar 23 21:36:17 offering would be preferable and more accurate as opposed to tithe Mar 23 21:36:17 how much can be "stashed" in a shrine before the owner comes back to collect the tithes? do pilgrim tithes still count if the shrine "fills up"? Mar 23 21:36:21 there are only 3 shrines in all of egypt so far? Mar 23 21:36:25 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:37:07 --> Mau (mAU@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:37:21 <-- Mau (mAU@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:38:18 Devalin: Many ways to get around that. Also, someone else is likely to just build a more holy shrine of each type... Mar 23 21:38:41 And then collect all the tithes from that big group. Mar 23 21:39:16 I am planning on promoting 1 group of 7, per 3 RL days... Mar 23 21:39:23 --> Lordfly-atitd (mostlyharm@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:39:27 Haven't written that last piece of code. Mar 23 21:39:49 I want this to be a challenging, but not overwhelming test. Mar 23 21:40:36 Hekamsennah: To be most holy, just exceed the tithe for whatever item type by one, compared to any other shrines of that type in the region. Mar 23 21:41:05 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:41:07 Is there some limit on when the owner of the shrine can take the items out of it? If not, then can they not just tithe, remove, tithe, remove for several points from that mud granite shrine? Mar 23 21:41:08 1) Will there be anything like "meditate on obelisks" to locate the holiest shrines, etc?, 2) Will we be able to see our scores to track our progress? Mar 23 21:41:10 <-- Amosis has quit (Quit: ) Mar 23 21:41:23 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:41:47 No limits on taking items out, so the owner can get 200 points from his own shrine. Mar 23 21:42:01 (Close to 200 anyway) Mar 23 21:42:37 You can see your scores - it gives a detailed breakdown of where your points are coming from. Mar 23 21:42:41 --> Meriaten (Meriaten@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:42:47 Nothing like Meditate on Obelisks. Mar 23 21:42:51 --> FoA|Pjotr (Pjotr@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #ATITD Mar 23 21:43:00 <-- _Falcon_ (tom@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:43:31 All it will say is "there is another more holy mud granite shrine nearby. Seek it out." Mar 23 21:43:45 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:43:46 will shrines still become unholy after a week of no pilgrims? Mar 23 21:43:47 This game gets more and more discouraging as we go along. The tests are all catering to the people who have unlimited playtime and/or have beta knowledge. I'm not playing this game to fit in as a cog in the massive trade machine that will allow the very few to accomplish something that counts towards the endgame. 3 paths have been tainted by short-sighted test planning so far, and we're only a few tests in. Are any of the test Mar 23 21:43:47 does every groups score reset every 3 days, or do you keep accumulating score until you eventually win? Mar 23 21:43:47 if you are building a shrine...will it warn you if your new shrin is not the holiest of its type in the area? Mar 23 21:43:49 I remember from earlier chat logs that a shrine stays holy only as long as people pay tribute at it, what exactly happens when that goes away, does the next most expensive shrine become holy all of a sudden? Also, what happens if someone were to pay at the expensive non-holy one afterwards. Mar 23 21:43:50 It's challenging to everyone that isn't in a big guild sure. But I don't understand what this has to do with Worship. No church that I know of gathers teams and makes a race for the collection plate. What does competitivness have to do with faith and worship? Mar 23 21:43:51 Okay, I set it to n+1, but how do I find out n for an item? Mar 23 21:43:52 <[XR]Stas> Will the builder of the shrine know if the shrine is placed too close to another one? Similar to meditation on obelisks Mar 23 21:43:58 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:44:30 Geist: Some tests are competitive, others are not... Mar 23 21:45:11 If it were not that way, the game would have a walkthru. Mar 23 21:45:39 How do I voice Geist? Mar 23 21:46:05 --- Teppy[eGenesis] gives voice to Geist Mar 23 21:46:08 Woops, got cut off: to be long term tests that DON'T require taking time off work to play 24hrs straight like the Bedouin and Pilgrim will? If some of the tests are competitive, some are not, will there be a discipline that a casual player can COMPLETE? Mar 23 21:46:43 How casual?... Mar 23 21:46:57 Say 2-4hrs a day? Mar 23 21:47:16 --> Smogryn (jottley@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:47:25 I really love this game. But I can't help but see serious issues attracting and KEEPING new users after the second month the way these tests are designed. Mar 23 21:47:53 Actually, tests of Art, Thought, most of Worship, conflict are that way if you think about them... Mar 23 21:48:09 <-- Omar[WTF] (Omar1111@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:48:22 Playing hard doesn't help in any of those, except perhaps this test of Worship. Mar 23 21:48:34 Playing smart does... Mar 23 21:48:38 I only started two weeks post-beta, and I find myself discouraged at the level of "out-doing the Jonses" this game requires. Mar 23 21:48:39 <-- GoodRevrnd (jeebus@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:48:43 Architecture is definitely not for casual players... Mar 23 21:49:08 Body for the most part is fine for casual players, Bedouin excepted... Mar 23 21:49:24 And actually, even Bedouin is less hardcore than you may think... Mar 23 21:49:35 Let me look up a statistic... Mar 23 21:50:10 --> GoodRevrnd (jeebus@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:51:08 The difference between the most visited altars, and the least... Mar 23 21:51:31 Is about 60-fold. Mar 23 21:51:58 So one way to win bedouin is to run around like a madman, trying to hold as many altars as possible... Mar 23 21:52:12 There are differences in geographical detail that contribute to the dispairative nature of that test, along with the time needed to invest. Mar 23 21:52:15 Or you can find truly remote altars and visit those casually. Mar 23 21:52:33 --> silver (silver@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 21:52:51 <-- Meriaten (Meriaten@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:53:34 So I try to make most tests so that smart play has an advantage over brute force play, except for architecture... Mar 23 21:53:46 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:53:51 I don't wish to look for things to moan about, as much as it seems like I do. ;) I really just hope there's a place for the casual-ish gamer in the end-game. Mar 23 21:53:57 I would still like to know what the "objective" is? Is it for one person to pass all the tests? 7 people who have passed all the tests for each respective discipline? Mar 23 21:54:01 didn't know architecture was for insane people :P Mar 23 21:54:06 True. Architecture takes alot of time and devotion in real life. Mar 23 21:54:09 me either :P Mar 23 21:54:11 --- Lordfly-atitd is now known as Lordfly|BOTS Mar 23 21:54:12 architecture seems like one of the least intensive to me Mar 23 21:54:18 does your score reset every 3 days, or do you keep accumulating points until your group eventually wins? Mar 23 21:54:21 It doesn't require you to be on 24/7, just to spend a lot of time gathering the resources Mar 23 21:54:22 hope I'm insane so I can still do it Mar 23 21:54:23 istill this Arch is the EASIEST. you know your goal and go for it Mar 23 21:54:25 this is crazy Mar 23 21:54:32 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:55:10 <-- Kasmilos_ (trilluser@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:55:14 If you are very ambitious, your objective should be to pass all 7 tests in one discipline. Mar 23 21:55:48 No hard limit on not be ing able to do that in more than 1 discipline. Mar 23 21:56:23 <-- Dyrithe (mechplayer@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 21:56:35 You will have a *meaningful* role in the end game by passing as few as, say, 3 tests in one discipline. Mar 23 21:56:44 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:56:45 any word on when we will see an initiation to the discipline of Thought?? Mar 23 21:56:47 It's challenging to everyone that isn't in a big guild sure. But I don't understand what this has to do with Worship. No church that I know of gathers teams and makes a race for the collection plate. What does competitivness have to do with faith and worship? Mar 23 21:56:58 Does the initiation for thought really open with the building of the first pyramid? From what I hear, that requires a minimum of opening it in all 7 types of uni's not to mention requiring 7 LS per uni Mar 23 21:57:08 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:57:30 Initiation to Thought will come as the first small pyramids are built. Mar 23 21:58:15 Well, depends on the church I suppose :) Mar 23 21:58:19 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 21:58:21 i think whats frustrating about these test s is thtat they are based on other people, regardless if its coop or competitive.. thats why Arch seems so easy, you can do everything yourself ;) BTW, I just picked up an Iron bar and my inventory moved about..50px to the irght, then i stashed it and it went back to the left... :glitch? Mar 23 21:58:22 <[XR]VoodooC|away> teppy: i think what people are asking for is what is the end-game condition: at least one person completing each discipline? and then build the 'wonder' for each discipline? Mar 23 21:58:25 nepthys: it isn't the test of religion, but of worship. ancient peoples paid homage to natural objects like trees and the sun through ritual. noone is saying you have to form a supernatural dogma Mar 23 21:58:47 Paying homage yes, but not in competition with one another Mar 23 21:58:53 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 21:59:28 That's true - nearly everything in ATITD does rely on other people, and that is intentional. It's actually the primary design goal... Mar 23 21:59:35 ATITD is a very poor single player game. Mar 23 21:59:50 --> Sutekh (Sutekh@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:00:00 Each discipline is supposed to represent a *different* way of working with others... Mar 23 22:00:04 <-- Devalin|AFK (devalin@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:00:05 --> Brymstone[TCE] (brymstone@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:00:30 So, Architecture represents capitalism. Getting the best dea, organizing resources from many people. Mar 23 22:00:46 Art and Music represents pleasing others aesthetically. Mar 23 22:00:50 --> Wraith (j@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:00:59 Worship is about cooperating with others. Mar 23 22:01:46 Thought will be "finding the pulse" of the others in the game. (Goal is for you to create content at the "right" level for your fellow players.) Mar 23 22:01:57 Conflict is direct one-on-one competition. Mar 23 22:02:16 Body is the most solo discipline... Mar 23 22:02:18 --> Salamander (noneya@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:02:48 And leadership is about manipulating others. (Although "manipulation" should not be taken in it's negative connotation.) Mar 23 22:02:53 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 22:02:55 A more general Test question: Do you have plans for the next test to be implemented? I'm particularly looking forward to more of the Conflict tests. Mar 23 22:02:55 I don't see the "bigness" of the competition - since you get to keep your points forever, then, say, your group has visited 40 shrines. one day, the winner has 50, but unless someone else gets to 41+ the next day, then you win the next day. It's like camels, except the "big guns" can't repeatedly ruin it for you every day because eventually they'll all have passed. Mar 23 22:02:57 Is the end-game truly the end of the game? Mar 23 22:03:00 What is your personal opinion on contest collusion? (Throwing of games, etc?) Mar 23 22:03:03 There's a difference between Reliance and Competition. Feeling the need to outdo your neighbor does NOT in my mind promote a feeling of regional or national unity and/or cooperation. Mar 23 22:03:04 do shrines still become unholy after a week of no pilgrim visits? Mar 23 22:03:06 nepthys: it's a game mechanic. jeesh. they didn't run across egypt holding cactus sap for glowing altars either. Mar 23 22:03:07 I'm better than you because I'm a slave to an uber guild, therefore I am more honoured that you are by the Gods. You are worthless, even thought you treat everyone well and fairly, and donate what you can. So materialism (which in this game equates to time + a fast mouse click) = A better society. That's a fundemental flaw in thought. I thought this game was about cooperation with others, not beating others with more players. Mar 23 22:03:08 Varen, got a quick question Mar 23 22:03:14 where are the dragons? ;-) Mar 23 22:03:18 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 22:03:20 <-- Arazuelite (vaernus@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:03:34 Silver: Correct. Unlike Bedouin, your points remain. Mar 23 22:03:40 <-- Guildy|AFK (KamikaziKa@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:04:13 --> Devalin (devalin@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:04:24 The end game is in fact the end of this first Telling of ATITD. We'll then do another telling, and it all makes sense. (Can't talk more about this, sorry.) Mar 23 22:04:48 <-- Crowley (OneP@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:05:04 --> stapler (owirc@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:05:16 I think that conflict collusion is not in the spirit of the game, and the ranking algorithm is designed to discourage it... Mar 23 22:05:23 --> Crowley (OneP@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:05:38 When you see the end game, you will realize how big a mistake you are making if you do this. Mar 23 22:06:25 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 22:06:28 will we one day get ph4t l3wt? :P Mar 23 22:06:28 --- Lordfly|BOTS is now known as Lordfly|BotS Mar 23 22:06:28 When will we see better fishing poles? :) Mar 23 22:06:29 Will there be a way to break up a team that has not yet won, if one member leaves the game? to make a new team...? Mar 23 22:06:31 <-- Crowley has quit (Killed (irc.glowfish.de (Guest502079559(?) <- irc.glowfish.de[unknown@localhost]))) Mar 23 22:06:34 So is the "End-Game" condition for the first telling? What exactly am I striving for? Why should I or anyone try to pass tests? Mar 23 22:06:35 Will it be reasonably possible for a solo player to complete all 7 thought tests (as in not needing resources only a large guild could get, not about interaction with other players)? Mar 23 22:06:39 --> Rosethorn-VN (rosethorn@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:06:39 --> GPLblUAO (OneP@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:06:39 there are a finite number of egyptians, a minority of which will be interested in the worship test. and 7 of them "win" every day. so if you put a reasonable effort into it at all, you will win - maybe a few days after you did the pilgrimage. but it will happen :) Mar 23 22:06:42 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 22:06:46 <-- patgas (stiffly@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:07:00 Nodjmet: Yes, that's in there. Mar 23 22:07:20 Condition for the end game is "about" when at least one of each monument is built. Mar 23 22:07:33 (IOW, strive to build one of each monument.) Mar 23 22:08:23 <-- epictetus[SOT] (just@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:08:58 Silver: Correct. Mar 23 22:09:33 Like I said, by passing just a few tests in one discipline, you will have a *meaningful* role in the end game... Mar 23 22:10:21 And when we're close to the first monument being constructed... Mar 23 22:10:42 Even though you may not be the level-7 Artist that leads the team... Mar 23 22:11:17 Say, you're one of the 16 level-3 artists in the team... Mar 23 22:11:26 <-- paddy (ray@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:11:43 You will not feel that your time was wasted. I promise this. Mar 23 22:11:47 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 22:11:48 --- GPLblUAO is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:11:49 If you're aloud to say or not, out of curiosity: will the tests be different or altered in anyway for the 2nd telling? Mar 23 22:11:49 Do all the time based tests in the game rely on a day game time or do any of them work on real time? Mar 23 22:11:49 --- rehpic is now known as Rehpic|BotS Mar 23 22:11:50 Is it better to pass several tests in one discipline or spread yourself through several disiplines with 1 or 2 tests in each? Mar 23 22:11:50 You realize that creating competition, creates conflict, which divides society.. not binds it, correct? So, as long as I am in a huge guild, and pass all my tests then that's it. Even if that equates to less than 5% of the players in the game now, and the ones who are left wondering what they paid for? Mar 23 22:11:51 <[SE]Addrynnyn> How long do you estimate it will be till the "end game?" Mar 23 22:11:52 I'll prmomise YOU Mar 23 22:11:56 Endgame is how long we make it : ) so it could take 2 years if we are slow : ), which could be best, doubles eGen's pockets and gives more of us time to do each test... Mar 23 22:11:57 1. How do you know how many points your group has? 2. What if you know the owner? You all tithe, the owner gives it back to you, you tithe again? Does that work? Mar 23 22:12:01 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 22:12:04 <-- Sebulba (pfr@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:12:28 --> Pixbo (pixbo5@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:12:48 Tkath: Yes, some of the tests will change, and the technologies will change, etc. It's intended to have the flavor of ATITD, with some changes to the specifics. Mar 23 22:14:05 Taral: That's fine - you can't know everyone that owns a shrine, or even a majority. Mar 23 22:14:57 Nephtys: I'm not the one creating a society - you are. The tests are there, some will drive you apart, some will bring you together, like all the challenges in the game... Mar 23 22:15:48 Tests are no different than other content in this way. Mar 23 22:15:51 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 22:15:53 How do you know how many points your group has? Mar 23 22:15:53 Chat Question: Have you ever considered creating a broadcast chat channel that everyone online can read from and speak on? Very few mmorpgs incorperate this these days. The very first mmorpg, Meridian 59, incorperated this and had this chat system and created one of the best communitys out there. Mar 23 22:15:55 <-- Crowley has quit (Killed (irc.glowfish.de (Guest653079946(?) <- irc.glowfish.de[unknown@localhost]))) Mar 23 22:15:56 a capitalist would argue that some competition is better for all of society. besides there are big guilds now and they dont have every single member passing every single test. gimme a break. Mar 23 22:15:57 off topic: was the guild hall upgrade just a cruel joke or was that actually supposed to be worth the time and gems invested? ;-) Mar 23 22:16:02 I would like to note that in most large guilds that I have heard about, emphasis on their members working rather than doing tests (personal goals) is pronounced. Smaller, more focused guilds, or solos will have more of a chance to do the tests they want without repurcussions. Mar 23 22:16:04 --> H[aKgCPO (OneP@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:16:09 teppy: what is the flavor of atitd? crunchy, fruity or carmelized? :) Mar 23 22:16:18 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode +m #atitd Mar 23 22:16:45 Broadcast channel would not handle the number of users, which is often 400+. Mar 23 22:17:22 Ok, gonna wrap up. I'll hang out for a bit unmoderated... However, let me now release Path of the Pilgrim. Mar 23 22:17:25 --- Teppy[eGenesis] sets mode -m #atitd Mar 23 22:17:27 --- H[aKgCPO is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:17:39 teppy = MY HERO!!11! Mar 23 22:17:48 I still want to know the answer to taarka's question. Mar 23 22:17:48 So your answer is yes, the game is only for about 5% of the people who will get to compete (not complete) the end game. Now I get it. Mar 23 22:17:53 So you're saying... there's 2 goals here: 1: As a society to build the 7 monuments and 2: Indvidually, to pass as many tests as you can? (still curious as to how passing 3 tests is "meaningful") Mar 23 22:17:55 Teppy - PM Mar 23 22:17:57 me too Mar 23 22:17:57 Teppy: i've heard rumors of a mythical chocolate pyramid. do they truly exist? :P Mar 23 22:17:57 * DuffMan is at 220 gastro. It's going to get hard soon. Mar 23 22:17:57 rabble rabble Mar 23 22:18:07 rabble rabble rabble! Mar 23 22:18:08 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:18:12 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:18:15 nephtys has all the answers. all praise nephtys! Mar 23 22:18:16 Nephtys, where you coming up wtih 5% Mar 23 22:18:17 I eate my pyramid Mar 23 22:18:19 thanks for the chat Teppy Mar 23 22:18:21 Shikaku_Shinzui: Rabble rabble? Mar 23 22:18:24 in a way this may be one of the easiest tests. if you visit 10-20 shrines and wait long enough, you'll probably pass some day in your sleep Mar 23 22:18:24 cocoa would be cool Mar 23 22:18:28 otter: I didn't get mine :( Mar 23 22:18:28 My guild is 100% pursuing and passing tests Mar 23 22:18:34 I don't know anyone who isn't pursuing at least something Mar 23 22:18:36 Mine as well Mar 23 22:18:38 but is it local to the area? Mar 23 22:18:48 <-- Sirtech has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Mar 23 22:18:50 I'm pursuing true love. Mar 23 22:18:54 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:18:55 * Katelynn coughs Mar 23 22:18:57 * Yandros{7L} tackle hugs Otter. Mar 23 22:18:58 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:19:01 And we donate too! Mar 23 22:19:01 i just wish ppl would complete research in other areas of egypt. we need more types of vines and flowers. get busy people! Mar 23 22:19:02 And how many people are in your guild? The majority of people who play, are NOT in huge guilds. Mar 23 22:19:05 if someone doesn't pass every single test, that's right they will not have any fun and be worthless. all hail nephtys! Mar 23 22:19:12 * jwbarry|afk jumps on the pigpile! Mar 23 22:19:15 We're working on it homegrown Mar 23 22:19:16 <[CSD]_Scavenger> thanks for the hard work teppy, and taking time out of your sunday afternoon to listen to us whine and bitch =) Mar 23 22:19:21 --- [CSD]_Scavenger is now known as zoogel Mar 23 22:19:24 silver: This game is extremely easy if you are patient, excluding the Obelisk test. Mar 23 22:19:24 Teppy, do you have any comments regarding my guild hall upgrade question? Mar 23 22:19:28 I wasn't pursuing any test, I thought the point was to help a small group of people pass all the tests Mar 23 22:19:29 I still think a broadcast channel would r0x0r many, vast quantities of b0x0rz. Mar 23 22:19:30 Homegrown: we're trying to in CCR Mar 23 22:19:32 <-- Want to buy 5 medium topaz, 7 medium diamond, and 7 large sapphire, PM me if you can help out. Mar 23 22:19:32 voltman - its better for people pursuing conflict or human body to not be in huge guilds Mar 23 22:19:40 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:19:41 nepthys has statistics on all players in the game! all hail nephtys! Mar 23 22:19:44 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:19:45 How many active people in HOH Rose? Mar 23 22:19:47 <-- Giving sexual favours or large quantitys of wood or straw for a handloom. Mar 23 22:19:47 It is supposed to be difficult to be successful at Architecture, if THAT is the one you are referring to Mar 23 22:19:57 That discipline is supposed to be for huge guilds Mar 23 22:20:06 28 Kate Mar 23 22:20:11 Heh, I solo'd my obelisk Mar 23 22:20:12 I'd say... no more than 10 that log in on a regular basis though. Mar 23 22:20:15 There isn't a discipline that a casual player can compete or complete in. That's the problem. Mar 23 22:20:19 I know a soloer who's about to pass octecs :) Mar 23 22:20:23 Yes there is geist Mar 23 22:20:23 <[XR]HerkenDidwyk> geist: conflict Mar 23 22:20:24 Conflict Mar 23 22:20:25 rosethorn, i know. i am making fun of nephtys. read the log. in fact, im a body guy myself. :) Mar 23 22:20:26 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:20:30 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:20:30 Geist, Conflict Mar 23 22:20:31 <[XR]MrPinstripe> <----- selling loom frames at the XR mega mall Mar 23 22:20:31 Geist: Conflict is EASY for the solo. Mar 23 22:20:32 Shikaku_Shinzui: You a girl or guy? Mar 23 22:20:34 our group of 4 is about to have 3 people pass octecs Mar 23 22:20:35 --- jwbarry|afk is now known as jwbarry Mar 23 22:20:36 Casual players can compete and complete Conflict Mar 23 22:20:37 --> kalldrexx (kalldrexx@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:20:38 bah...Arch is for dedicated people...guild/non-guild is meaningless : ) Mar 23 22:20:44 Duffman: I was kidding =P Mar 23 22:20:47 thought, conflict, body, art. all can be easily done by soloers Mar 23 22:20:48 Conflict is easy for the solo if you have 12 hours a day for a month to spend playing games... Mar 23 22:20:51 Klubbad> I'm getting close as well with items I've made Mar 23 22:20:53 <-- Katelynn has quit (Quit: ) Mar 23 22:20:55 I did the obelisk solo Mar 23 22:20:57 I woke up at 6AM to do it Mar 23 22:20:58 How could you not be kidding? =P Mar 23 22:20:58 Art is also theoretically soloer friendly Mar 23 22:21:00 Art for soloers and casual people as well Mar 23 22:21:04 and walked for 5 hours into the middle of the desert Mar 23 22:21:04 hehe Mar 23 22:21:05 Art, yes. Mar 23 22:21:08 What I want to know is _where_ is the red sand? Mar 23 22:21:11 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:21:13 Once you get the materials to start, a solo can do it. Mar 23 22:21:14 ok, THIS IS VERY EARLY SO THE BUTTONS ETC DONT WORK Mar 23 22:21:14 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:21:14 http://www.atitd.info/n_map_1.php?mode=5 Mar 23 22:21:17 Red beach? Mar 23 22:21:17 Some of those tests need to bloody well be opened then. ;) Mar 23 22:21:20 NO YOU HAVE TO BE IN HUGE GUILD TO DO ART THIS IS THE SUX0RZ I WANT TO FIGHT DRAGONS!!!11!! Mar 23 22:21:24 I can't do Body, because there is something wrong with the timer in relation to my character... that has gone ignored by the devs for almost two weeks now. Mar 23 22:21:24 :P Mar 23 22:21:31 SOW PLZ Mar 23 22:21:43 * Nephtys renames voltman to KingTroll Mar 23 22:21:45 CRY MORE N00B Mar 23 22:21:45 --> Gonic (cperkinsii@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #atitd Mar 23 22:21:47 That's BS geist, I passed tug in 4 days of working at it Mar 23 22:21:48 DR4G0nZ 4ND 3LVEZ PLZ ^_^^^ Mar 23 22:21:49 KSER! Mar 23 22:21:50 Guild hall expansion: Mar 23 22:21:50 devalin - you need to add a dowsing app, break it down to a little square :) Mar 23 22:21:52 caps = evil Mar 23 22:21:53 if you dont, i will! Mar 23 22:21:53 Centove> You forgot to ask about gold too ;} Mar 23 22:21:54 haha Mar 23 22:21:55 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:21:58 Teppy would u be so kind to give us another "red sand hint"? :) Mar 23 22:21:59 and that's when there were a lot more people not able to play Mar 23 22:21:59 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:22:03 7 passing every 3 days is a lot better than 1 passing every 7 days Mar 23 22:22:06 <[XR]HerkenDidwyk> is there a maximum guild hall size? Mar 23 22:22:06 <-- Aldaturo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Mar 23 22:22:06 people live in the middle of the ocean Mar 23 22:22:10 <-- Hekamsennah (hascheidle@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd Mar 23 22:22:11 sure, if you SUCK at strategy it might be a really tough test Mar 23 22:22:14 ift: no doubt on that. Mar 23 22:22:14 I tried to explain this was a fairly minor upgrade. Mar 23 22:22:19 dowsing app isnt difficult, but not sure ppl would share reliably Mar 23 22:22:23 Leadership is also doable as a soloer. Mar 23 22:22:23 I play 2-3 hours weekdays, more on weekends...I'm ranked 125 in tug now Mar 23 22:22:24 Yandros{7L}: Not intrested in gold ATM. Mar 23 22:22:26 <[XR]HerkenDidwyk> cuz like, we're gonna reach it if there is Mar 23 22:22:26 crowley - pick a nick Mar 23 22:22:34 Teppy, PM. Mar 23 22:22:38 werather its reliable or not Mar 23 22:22:39 its data Mar 23 22:22:41 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:22:42 Err, CASUAL soloer Mar 23 22:22:45 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:22:49 Yeah, I think Leadership is actually *easier* for soloers, since guild people Mar 23 22:22:56 are often thought o have other motives. Mar 23 22:23:01 That makes sense. Mar 23 22:23:02 You know what would be cool. If the architechture disp. acctualy tested your architectural skill =p Mar 23 22:23:07 you could setup trusted dowsers that could veriy and thus lock a coord, or disprove and open a coord Mar 23 22:23:09 * FoA|Fzero Looking to buy Large Sapphires, Medium Diamonds, and Medium Topaz. Msg me. Mar 23 22:23:13 i must have missed when you tried to tell us that ;-) ...in any case, 4 large gems and 7 weeks seems a bit excessive for a minor change Mar 23 22:23:15 That's cause guild people do have other motives Mar 23 22:23:20 Does anyone know how the wine-perception thing actually works? I mean, one could just make enough bad wines to get perception, is a bad wine as good as a good wine? Mar 23 22:23:24 Because Leadership is all about individuals and Worship is all about teams. Mar 23 22:23:25 --- Crowley is now known as Crowley2 Mar 23 22:23:29 --- Crowley2 is now known as Crowley Mar 23 22:23:30 * Yandros{7L} is looking to trade a Set crystal for a Shu crystal. Mar 23 22:23:32 Klub, you need to drink a lot of wine Mar 23 22:23:35 Different wine Mar 23 22:23:36 Bad < Good Mar 23 22:23:37 All pilgrims need to chant Klaatu Barrada Nikto Mar 23 22:23:38 all guild people are inherantly evil bolsheviks trying to hax0r the server and destroy our happy game. Mar 23 22:23:43 Hellinar, a solo, won the Demi-Pharaoh Election Test (Leadership) in Beta. Mar 23 22:23:48 Something like that voltman Mar 23 22:23:55 I think almost everyone else was a guilded person.. Mar 23 22:24:09 <-- Gonic (cperkinsii@host217-34-78-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #atitd